Chasing Amy from director Kevin Smith (Clerks) is one of the most successful indie features from the ’90s. The movie, which tells the story of a comic book writer, Holden (Ben Affleck), who falls in love with the lesbian Alyssa (Joey Lauren Adams), grossed $ 12 million from a $ 250,000 budget. Chasing Amy also gave many queer people a voice and an identity, and one of them was writer/director Sav Rodgers. As a queer kid of the ’90s, he was being bullied, but Chasing Amy got him through those terrible times. He’s now honouring this life-changing movie by dedicating his first feature, Chasing Chasing Amy, to it. Geek Vibes Nation chatted with Rodgers during the BFI London Film Festival 2023 and talked about this beautiful and emotional trip down memory lane and how Chasing Amy impacted his life and the LGBTQ+ community.
Geek Vibes Nation: Congratulations on your wonderful documentary. So why Chasing Amy as your starting point, and why now?
Writer/director Sav Rodgers: It was the only story that I could tell. Initially, the idea was to create a documentary about the intersection of Chasing Amy and the LGBTQ community. When I started it, it was almost the 20th anniversary of Chasing Amy. I thought, “Okay, this is a good time to revisit this movie”. The story speaks a lot to the issues we’re discussing regarding effective LGBTQ media representation. It was anthropological when I started the process, and then it became increasingly more personal as the story evolved. The story wouldn’t leave me alone. I’m glad that I finally got it off my chest.
GVN: Do you write a script for a documentary like this beforehand, or do you see how much input and footage you can get from other people first before writing it?
SR: Great question. First, there was a ton of research. I was like, “Okay, these are the avenues I’m interested in exploring”. There was no paper edit or anything like that at the beginning of the process; arguably, we never had a paper edit. We were trying to figure out which puzzle pieces would fit together because we were trying to finish the movie. Throughout the process, there were attempts at writing paper edits to make it all make sense and to fit all these puzzle pieces together. All the work was done in the editing room in collaboration with our editor Sharika [Ajaikumar] and all the producers working with me.
GVN: So, presumably there’s so much more footage that we have yet to see.
SR: So many hours of footage and much good stuff were left on the cutting room floor. We narrowed our scope to every scene that had to be about my changing relationship with Chasing Amy, and with that narrow scope and purpose, everything that was supposed to be in the movie ended up in the movie, and everything that felt extraneous was ultimately cut. It was a process of incredible collaboration to make that happen.
GVN: Who was the hardest to get for your documentary?
SR: The people who would be hardest to get for the documentary were those we didn’t get. Everybody who ended up being in it was pretty easy to get a hold of. The most challenging get was Jason Lee (who portrayed Banky Edwards in Chasing Amy). The story of how we got him is really funny. Kevin [Smith] had offered to connect me with Jason, and I said, “Great. I’ll be in L.A. in the next few weeks”. He’s like, “Cool! Plan on doing the interview then.” He was interviewing Jason Lee for his podcast, so Lee would be there. We showed up with our recording equipment and had a day and a half to assemble a shoot because we finally got this interview with Jason Lee.
We set up, and I watched Kevin tell Jason in person, “Oh hey, you’re going to do this interview right after the podcast.” Jason Lee was a terrific sport. We talked to him for 25-30 minutes, got the footage, and he was able to be included in the documentary. I was very thankful that Kevin advocated for us to get the interview with him.
GVN: In this feature, we see that Kevin contacted you at first via Twitter and Instagram. When you saw his D.M., did you believe it or think it was a fake? There are tons of fake accounts out there.
SR: I checked to ensure the verified badge was real about 20 times the day Kevin DMed me. When I texted him, he immediately called me back, and we talked on the phone for 20 minutes. I said, “Cool, this is real. I didn’t just make all this up.” While Kevin isn’t a producer or creatively involved, he was happy to introduce me to people like Scott Mosier (producer of Chasing Amy), who was not in my network. He saw the version that I was playing here at BFI, and I played Tribeca and everything about a month before Tribeca. It was a touching conversation because I just told him I sent him the press link to look at it and told him to call me when he was done.
92 minutes later, he FaceTimes me, and I’m like, “OK, this is it. Be prepared for whatever reaction”. Before I could say “Hi”, he said, “I loved it.” He very kindly talked to me for 56 minutes about everything he loved about it. He was open, receptive, generous, and kind. That’s truly what he was in that conversation. Our movie was also the opening night film at his film festival a couple of nights ago. There was a lovely response there as well. I couldn’t have asked for more in terms of that.
GVN: How is it to like to see people react so positively to your documentary?
SR: It’s overwhelming at times. It’s moving because I’m just telling my story. The same or similar identification I had with Chasing Amy are people now having Chasing Chasing Amy. It’s this big, full-circle moment, and it’s very emotional. I ended up crying with people a lot or crying thinking about it. It’s been lovely to know all of my dreams come true on this in ways that I just couldn’t have anticipated.
GVN: Were there also any tears behind the camera when filming it?
SR: Oh my God. Yes. Blood, sweat, and tears are a real thing. I had so much anxiety about it. You’re talking about difficult parts of your life. You’re opening up, but you’re also transitioning. You’re preserving a part of yourself on screen that you wouldn’t ordinarily decide to show people. However, for the story’s benefit, I chose to do that, and it was my choice. It was a really difficult choice. You see me make mistakes in the movie and come of age. I think it’s a lot more fun to watch other people come of age than to see yourself do it. You cringe, and you’re sick of the sound of your voice. It was really hard.
When I’m anxious, I just lay on the floor of my office. I just lay there on the carpet. I’m like, “OK, I have to problem-solve this. I got to figure this out.” There were many days of laying on my office floor trying to solve problems, thinking about the next move, and not being upset. Full credit to everyone who helped me get through that because it was tough for me. I’m so thankful to have come out on the other side of it.
GVN: This movie is also very emotional and personal for your partner, Riley, as we see much of her. How was the making of Chasing Chasing Amy for her?
SR: Well, one, she loves being a superstar. Deadline called her “incredibly charismatic”; she has never let us forget that. Riley has been having a great time with the film. She’s unfortunately back home in the States right now. But it’s fantastic seeing people fall in love with her like I have. The greatest gift to our relationship is seeing people fall in love with her and seeing me through her eyes. It’s just like this joyous thing.
GVN: How did you film the engagement scene? It’s undoubtedly one of this documentary’s most genuine and moving scenes.
SR: The good thing about having a documentary crew follow you around for mundane stuff is that the surprises aren’t always given away because you’re used to having cameras around. When we came to New York to do talking head interviews, Riley and I were already engaged, but she didn’t have an engagement ring. What happened behind the scenes is like we had gotten engaged. She gave me a ring, and then her mom died suddenly, and she had to return to Mexico City. For like nine months, we didn’t see each other. I wanted an opportunity to propose back to her and have this like a romantic thing.
I knew I would do it in Times Square because she loves Times Square. She loves the spectacle and how kitschy it is. It’s a space that makes her feel happy. It was a great idea so we’re going to do that. I said, ” OK, we need to shoot some B roll in Times Square.”. We had the whole camera crew set up.
You can see it on camera: the ring is burning a hole in my pocket, and I want to get it over with because, like, I’ve been talking about this for four weeks and planning this out with everybody. We already had to delay once because of the weather. Anyway, all that to say, she did not know it was coming, and you can see it on her face. I cannot believe I kept my cool that long to make it happen. Full credit to the crew for not giving anything away, being super co,ol and acting like it was just another day of getting a B roll.
GVN: How was it for you to see this documentary together?
SR: Oh, she cried her eyes out. She saw it at the end of the process. She was always helping and doing stuff, but I wanted her and my parents to see it simultaneously. Before Tribeca, she watched the movie with my parents, and they cried, and we had big hugs and everything like that. Thankfully, she loves the movie. There’s a world in which she could not have loved it, but she likes it as a movie in addition to liking me and liking our love story unfolding in real time. Yeah, it’s inspiring for other people to go through the same.
GVN: What was your parents’ reaction like when you said to them, “Oh yeah, I want to make a documentary about Chasing Amy but also about my life at the same time”?
SR: They’ve always been so supportive. My dad is a YouTuber, and he records stuff all the time. He’s very used to the filming process, so there’d be times when I’m like, “Dad, can you hold the camera?” My mom has been my number one supporter since the day I was born. She encouraged me to pursue my passions and my dreams, and she was the one that got me into film in the first place. They were supportive during the making of this documentary. My parents didn’t know what it would be and were only sure what it was once they watched it. They said, “OK, that’s great that you got into Tribeca. What is the movie?” My mom agreed to be in it, which is outside her comfort zone. I really couldn’t be luckier with the support system that I have.
GVN: What would you say to people who don’t have supportive parents?
SR: Sadly, the world is so openly hostile towards LGBTQ people and people of any marginalized community. What I have found that has given me solace in my life is trying to find community, and community is one of the hardest things to cultivate. I would encourage people not to give up. There are like-minded people out there who feel and think the same as you. I’m so fortunate that through seeing Chasing Amy and becoming a filmmaker, I could find everything I was looking for that filled the void for my 12-year-old self.
It took a lot of time and a lot of practice. I’m a grown man now. It’s taken years to get to this. I have relentless optimism that things will work out. I have to believe it, or else it just won’t happen. I’ve found community through that through making movies. You can’t give up, which is easier said than done. It’s such a platitude, but it’s true, unfortunately.
GVN: Will this documentary go to other festivals besides the BFI London Film Festival?
SR: We’ve been so fortunate. It has been an incredible run. I’m so thankful that so many places want to play the movie. It’s a particular queer film, and we’re playing in places like Hong Kong. Places like that always surprise me. There are so many places that I never thought this movie would go. We’ve won a handful of best documentary awards. It’s the dream in ways we hadn’t thought of.
GVN: And do you already have other things you’re working on?
SR: There’s always an iron in the fire. I’m excited to continue telling optimistic, hopeful stories in the immediate future. Making more features and telling stories about queer people that aren’t about the worst things that have ever happened to us. It will be fun to get to tell those stories next.
GVN: Do you think people might be more open to queer people when we see all those stories?
SR: Yes, cinema is the most empathetic medium for storytelling. It allows you to walk in somebody else’s shoes for a minute. There are a lot of people who could benefit from just getting to know a queer person on screen. From the perspective of queer people who know our own lives and the joys of it and not just the terrible parts of it.
GVN: If you could make another documentary about another movie, which film would it be?
SR: Oh, I love pop culture and exploring that. I am still determining when, if ever, I’ll make another movie about a movie. I’m fascinated with The Truman Show. I think about the Truman Show every single day of my life. It’s a terrific movie. Peter Weir just did a fantastic job. Jim Carrey, Laura Linney, and the whole ensemble in front of and behind the camera just did a fantastic job with that movie. The Truman Show is a nightmare scenario, but we opt to live in our own Truman Show. I’m very curious about how that idea permeates all cultures. Maybe someday there’ll be something there, but no more movies about movies for a while.
GVN: Looking forward to your next projects, and good luck with Chasing Chasing Amy.