(Welcome to “Notes on a Score,” GVN’s interview series highlighting the composers and musicians behind some of the year’s most acclaimed films and television series.)
Navalny and Barbarian couldn’t be more different – one a political thriller documenting a Russian politician’s fight to expose corruption, and the other a tense horror film about an Airbnb with a deep, dark secret in the basement – and yet they both, sonically, came from the same mind.
Anna Drubich, a Russian composer, had an exceptional 2022. Along with scoring several projects in her home country, her two biggest American projects saw widespread acclaim and success. First was Navalny, which premiered at the 2022 Sundance Film Festival and took home an Audience Award. Following strong momentum throughout awards season, the film became the 18th Sundance selection to win the Academy Award for Best Documentary.
Directed by Daniel Roher, Navalny follows Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. After he is poisoned by a Russian nerve agent, his investigation into the incident reveals ties to Vladmir Putin and his corrupt administration. Drubich, who is originally from Moscow, took part in the nationwide protests following Navalny’s later arrest and was subsequently eager to take part in the project.
“I, of course, was following the whole story,” confirms Drubich. “It really hurts, what’s going on in my homeland. It [has become] so obvious that the whole system is a disaster, bringing so much destruction and pain and sorrow for people.” Drubich also referred to the country’s invasion of Ukraine, which began after the film finished production, as further proof of turmoil.
However, not too long after Drubich signed on, the Russian government officially designated Navalny as an extremist and requested the same designation for any organization linked to him or his work. “I reached out to the producers and said, ‘Guys, I’m sorry. My family is in Russia, I’m still very connected, I go there very often. I can’t be in the credits. It’s totally not possible.’ I stepped out of the project for a while.”
Composers Marius de Vries (CODA) and Matt Robertson would join the project as credited composers, but Drubich still stayed involved in the process. “We ended up working [together, the] three of us, toward the end of the film,” she elaborates. “We tried to make it sound like one, unique written soundtrack. I got lucky with Marius [and Matt]. We dig the same stuff.”
Six months after Navalny came Barbarian, an independent horror film from The Whitest Kids U’ Know comedian Zach Cregger. Following its premiere at San Diego Comic-Con in July of 2022, a swell of positive word-of-mouth from festival audiences and critics turned a humble directorial debut into a surprise smash and, eventually, a box-office sensation.
Initial reactions to the film stressed that it was one of the most shocking horror films of the year, best seen knowing as little as possible. Drubich, who “had nightmares” after seeing the film in full for the first time, knew that its twists and turns would appeal to horror fans. “I could totally see that it was going to be successful,” says Drubich. “It’s really unusual and not as predictable as many other horror movies.”
Drubich had crafted a name for herself in the horror film community following her collaborations with Marco Beltrami on Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark and the Fear Street trilogy. She also provided the score for the horror comedy Werewolves Within. Fans loved her score for Barbarian so much that it inspired her to officially release the film’s soundtrack with Hollywood Records.
“When I was working with Zach and he asked, ‘Do you think you will release the soundtrack?’ I was like, ‘No! Who would listen to this?’,” she recounts laughing. “When the movie [came] out, people started to reach out directly on my Instagram like, ‘Where can we find this?’ I was bombed with all these requests. That’s very flattering, obviously, even if you write this kind of unsettling shit.”
Drubich was approached to work on the score with only three weeks to finish it. Due to the time constraint, Drubich worked closely with Cregger, who already had a detailed vision of what he wanted to achieve sonically. “Because it was the last three weeks of the movie and he spent so much time with it, it was a no-go to say, ‘Let’s try something else.’ It was like, ‘No.’ It was set in stone.”
“[Zach] would really move sounds two frames to the left, five frames to the right,” said Drubich, describing Cregger’s process. “For some people, even for me, it doesn’t make any difference, but for him, it totally did. I went to a premiere screening [and] I could actually hear and see how smart his changes were…I told him, ‘Dude, you’re a genius because you really shifted things a tiny bit and then it made a huge difference.’”
You can read our full interview with Anna Drubich below, where she talks in-depth about remaining involved on Navalny, working closely with Cregger on Barbarian, and her love for John Williams’ score in The Fabelmans. It has been edited for length and clarity.
Congratulations on the success of both Navalny and Barbarian! I would love to start by talking about Navalny, which secured the win for Best Documentary at this year’s Academy Awards. This is a very unique collaboration because it’s you and two additional composers, Marius de Vries and Matt Robertson.
Yeah.
Based on the soundtrack’s credits, it looks like you composed some tracks together but some individually. How did you get involved with Navalny and what was the scoring process like between all three of you?
We started this project at the beginning of 2021, right after Navalny was arrested in Moscow, as you can see in the movie. I went to protest and, of course, was following the whole story. I’m from Russia, so the whole situation’s very, very close to me. It really hurts, what’s going on in my homeland. A couple days after he was arrested, my agent reached out to me and said that the filmmakers were looking for a composer. Because this is such a dangerous subject in Russia, they were asking if I was okay doing it, because obviously it can bring some consequences. I said, “Of course I will do it.” It was just me as a composer first.
I [began] writing some themes and they were still working with the edit. [Then] in Russia, they made a new law saying that, basically, everything somehow connected to Navalny is a terrorist organization. If you were somehow connected to the story, you could be imprisoned. I reached out to the producers and said, “Guys, I’m sorry. My family is in Russia, I’m still very connected, I go there very often. I can’t be in the credits. It’s totally not possible.” I stepped out of the project for a while.
Then they reached out to me and said, “Marius de Vries agreed to also work on the project, but since you’re not going to be in the credits, you can do a couple scenes here or there.” I wrote themes already and many of the producers and editors felt that they were major themes of the movie. The first third or half of the movie is mostly my music, and then it’s Marius’ stuff, but some cues we integrated motifs together. We tried to make it sound like one, unique written soundtrack. So, we ended up working [together, the] three of us, toward the end of the film, but I couldn’t put my name in the end credits. That’s kind of a political story.
I’m glad you brought that up because I was watching the film, knowing that I’d be interviewing you about it, and your name was not in the credits. I was confused! I was like, “What is going on?” I didn’t make the connection that you were entangled in the political risk of it all.
It was before the war [with Ukraine], so it felt a bit different [then, compared to now]. Since the war began, it [has become] so obvious that the whole system is a disaster, bringing so much destruction and pain and sorrow for people. I felt like I couldn’t really hide it anymore. Millions of Russians feel this pain and extreme shame with what’s going on. Somehow, everyone feels like if they can change something, the situation, they really should.
Well, thank you so much for going forward and providing your work on the film, because it is fantastic and incredibly important. When you were creating the musical identity for the film, what were your initial ideas and how did you go about combining them with Marius’ and Matt’s work.
Writing something like a main theme is a little bit like an actor’s work. You bring the story inside you and try to feel yourself as a main character. You start to meditate and figure out what the energy should be. You have to catch the initial impulse of the character, of the story, and then you just try it. With Navalny, I had this string stuff going on. This, kind of, very, very driven track that represents his force, even with all the circumstances and difficulties. He still keeps going and keeps going. That was the initial idea.
In general, I find collaboration between composers an extremely exciting process. It’s more about teamwork, working on storytelling and the music supporting the story and the characters and the drama. For some cues, I wrote the theme or a motif, but [it would be] Marius’ music. We tried to integrate it so it sounded like one cue. I find it super, super inspiring to work with great composers, but I could see that sometimes it wouldn’t be possible between some composers because their tastes are totally different. I got lucky with Marius. We dig the same stuff.
I wanted to speak about one particular cue in the film, which is entitled “A Horse and a Donkey.” I read in an interview somewhere that you play a little bit of accordion, so I heard that accordion in the track and I was like, “Oh, well, she must’ve recorded this!”
Yeah.
There’s also some bells and some harp in there, which create a stark contrast from the, as you said, more driven pieces earlier on in the film. What was the decision-making process behind incorporating those instruments?
It’s a very separate scene where the action is on pause and [the characters are] just walking. We think that maybe [Navalny will] never come back, maybe he’ll just stay in Germany and be free and not in danger. So, we kind of tried to play with this idealistic scene, kind of like a fairytale. That’s how it came up, with some bells and some string instruments and accordion. Marius said, “You should do this scene,” and I said, “Yeah, maybe we can record some accordion.” He said, “Yeah! Totally do it.” But then [the score] goes electronic when we go back to Christo Grozev [Navalny’s collaborator] on the train. I always really enjoy writing twists in the story where you start in one musical world but then suddenly go into a totally different one. That’s a cool cue. I really enjoyed working on it.
I’m always curious to talk with composers about how the edit and the score interact. You mentioned earlier that they were working on the edit as you began working on the score. It sounds like there was a bit of a back and forth there.
It’s a very specific thing for documentary because, with a [narrative] feature, you either get a cut with temp in it or you start writing themes as you imagine it, and then the director takes it in the editing room and tries it with the picture. You have the whole plot. In every documentary I work on, I find it always so up in the air which direction a movie will go. [Navalny] had so many different versions. Some of the versions of the movie I watched were like totally different movies with a totally different atmosphere and vibe. It’s really fascinating how a movie can be changed in the edit. It’s crazy.
When [the filmmakers and I] agreed to work together, they were going through hundreds of hours of footage as I was writing music. They still didn’t know which way the movie would go. Even without any cut, I started writing ideas and action-driven tracks. They took them even with very raw footage. Editors usually just cut with the music and the whole movie [comes] together because of the rhythm and the tempo. This happened with Navalny, but again, I think for documentaries especially, it’s a very common way to do it.
Let’s transition to Barbarian, which was one of 2022’s biggest success stories. When you began working on the film, was there any inkling in your mind that this film was going to explode the way that it did?
Well, I mean, when I watched it for the first time, it was extremely scary. I had nightmares that night.
[laughs]
Some of the images really get stuck in your head. It’s always [that way] with good horror movies – something strikes you and then you’re like…[flinches]. With this one, I could totally see that it was going to be successful. I didn’t know it would [explode] because you never know, but with this one, I thought it was a totally crazy movie. It’s really unusual and not as predictable as many other horror movies. I could see the potential, for sure.
Not only did the movie take off, but fans loved it so much that they inspired an official release for the soundtrack. How does it feel to see people being so taken by the film’s sound?
It is interesting because I get when, like, you write a very beautiful melody for a movie and then [everyone says], “Oh my god, I love the melody.” But for this one, when I was working with Zach and he asked, “Do you think you will release the soundtrack?” I was like, “No! Who would listen to this?” [laughs]
[laughs] Yeah, it’s, like, all atmospheric stuff.
Yeah. He was like, “Yeah, well, you know, sometimes people just like to listen to soundtracks, creepy shit.” I’m like, “Yeah, not for this one.” Then, when the movie was out, people started to reach out directly on my Instagram like, “Where can we find this?” I was bombed with all these requests.
Wow.
I thought, “I don’t know. Maybe I should release a couple tracks.” That’s how it started. It’s really interesting that people noticed the music in this movie and they thought that it made the movie better. That’s very flattering, obviously, even if you write this kind of unsettling shit.
I have to pick your brain about working with director Zach Cregger because, from reading other interviews, it sounds unlike anything I’ve ever heard between a composer and a director before. You only had three weeks to score the film and worked very closely with Zach, who had a very specific vision for what every musical moment was going to be. It’s ironic because I feel like a lot of composers would love to have a closeness with their director like that, but there’s also potential for that to be difficult and overbearing. Are there pros and cons to the experience?
There are pros and cons. For some composers, it can be difficult because it just totally ruins your ego. When you write something and think it works, and then the director kind of thinks it works, he’s not saying, “Oh, no, it’s totally wrong.” But then he comes and totally destroys all of the cue and moves things around and deletes a sound [and says] “let’s try this.” But at the end of the day, the scene improves and it’s not like it’s totally different [than what you made].
Right.
Zach said a very dangerous, very frightening phrase for every composer when they start to work: “I write music.” [laughs]
Oh, no. [laughs] Have you encountered some directors—
Yes.
[laughs] Obviously no names, of course, but have you encountered directors who think they know more than you?
I have to say that this was the only successful experience finishing the project because all my previous work with directors who say, “I also write music,” I quit. [laughs] I never finish the project.
[laughs] Oh my goodness.
I’m actually a very patient person, it’s just sometimes, when the person writes music – and I totally understand it – they can’t really express what they want. It just gets really, really frustrating for a composer trying to figure out what to compose. It could be a really unmotivating thing.
I want to talk a little bit about the cue, “Lullaby,” which is one of the most memorable ones from the film. I’m sure Zach had a very particular idea for that moment. What was the process behind deciding what that moment was going to feel and sound like?
He had a concept and, because it was the last three weeks of the movie and he spent so much time with it, it was a no-go to say, “Let’s try something else.” It was like, “No.” It was set in stone. With the lullaby, it actually turned out to be a very easy cue. He said, “Okay, I want this lullaby.” I said, “Okay, how should we do it?” He said, “Write me three variations of it,” and I wrote three different versions of just the lullaby. It’s supposed to be a very simple kid’s lullaby playing from a toy or something. Then he was in my studio [listening to the variations] and he said, “Version number two,” and that was it. The toughest cue was the opening. I have to say, I don’t think I released the right version of it because it got changed so many times and he was still twisting it during the dub stage, so I don’t think it’s the right version. [laughs] But it’s a close one.
For people who may not be familiar with the composition process, what is the dub stage and what is the significance of a director making changes within that stage?
The dub stage is the final mix of all the sound design, dialogue, and music that can be in the movie. It’s putting together the master copy of the movie. Usually you send music to the dub stage in stems, like in different layers, and it’s pretty much done for the composer. But for Barbarian, I was mixing, sending music, and rewriting stuff to the very last minute.
Wow.
Zach would have, I don’t know, like five or ten layers of the cue, but he would still want some extra layer and extra underlayer. He would like to control every sound of the music. Once it’s towards the end of the movie and of the process, it gets so confusing to everyone what’s going on, so it’s better just to relax and exhale and do whatever makes you happy. [laughs]
I feel like this is the kind of score where there are probably so many details within it that eventually, by the time it hits the theater, there are things you may recognize that totally go over audiences’ heads.
Of course. Zach has such a fixed idea of what he wants – like extremely, extremely detailed. He would really move sounds two frames to the left, five frames to the right. For some people, even for me, it doesn’t make any difference, but for him, it totally did. I can see why, because a couple months after we finished the dub, I went to a kind of premiere screening. I could actually hear and see how smart his changes were, so he really made the right choices. I told him, “Dude, you’re a genius because you really shifted things a tiny bit and then it made a huge difference.” For me it was extremely interesting to watch it with a crowd. They were reacting enormously, like so emotional, shouting and screaming, and I don’t know, like laughing? I was like, wow, it’s a whole experience.
Well, again, congrats on your incredible work on Barbarian. My last question for you: has there been a film or TV show or piece of music that has been inspiring you lately that you would push our readers to pursue?
Good question. I mean, [in terms of movies] I was recently watching this documentary by Adam Curtis called TraumaZone. It’s a really, really amazing documentary. I have to say, [for] my favorite movie of the year, I really liked The Fabelmans. I thought it was a great movie and a great score, but you know, when I’m working, I really try not to start watching something, like a TV show, because then I get addicted and can’t stop watching it. I’m now busy with several projects at the same time, so once I’m done, I’m going to start watching things.
It’s funny you bring up The Fabelmans, because that’s the king right there, John Williams. Do you think there’s something about this score that feels different than the iconic ones that we all know and love?
I was actually thinking of listening to the soundtrack separately because I watched the movie for the second time recently and a lot of the music is licensed classical music. It’s all put together so smartly and so movingly. He’s a maestro. He’s a genius. I mean, I think he can just write whatever and it will be all great and will work with the picture, no matter what happens.
You’re not wrong whatsoever. Anna, it’s really been a pleasure. Is there anything that we can expect next from you?
Yes. I have several projects, but I still can’t talk about those. [laughs] But it’s not a political thriller, so that’s good.
Navalny and Barbarian are now available to stream on HBO Max. Both films’ soundtracks are available via WaterTower Music and Hollywood Records respectively.
Larry Fried is a filmmaker, writer, and podcaster based in New Jersey. He is the host and creator of the podcast “My Favorite Movie is…,” a podcast dedicated to helping filmmakers make somebody’s next favorite movie. He is also the Visual Content Manager for Special Olympics New Jersey, an organization dedicated to competition and training opportunities for athletes with intellectual disabilities across the Garden State.