Many directors have iconic collaborations with their composers. Hitchcock and Hermann. Spielberg and Williams. Burton and Elfman. Nolan and Zimmer. Within a few years, this list will include Nayani and Kalaichelvan.
That’s V. T. Nayani and Kalaisan Kalaichelvan, the director and composer respectively of This Place, a queer love story set within Toronto’s mixed communities. When we spoke to Nayani, shortly after the film’s premiere at this year’s Toronto International Film Festival, she had a few comparisons to make of her own. “[Kalaisan] made me feel like I had my own Mani Ratnam and A. R. Rahman moment,” she said, “my own Barry Jenkins and Nicholas Britell moment as well.”
That’s high praise but certainly not without merit. Nayani has noted Moonlight and If Beale Street Could Talk as inspirations for This Place and Kalaichelvan, by extension, looked to Britell as a defining influence on the score.
“Nayani and I drew from what the music does underneath Barry Jenkins’ films to elevate them to a certain dreamlike state,” says Kalaichelvan. “When you’re working in between genres, working in between ways we think about sound, suddenly you have this whole new space and sound world that brings something else to the film. The ethos of that, which Britell does so well, is something we channeled into the score.”
A fellow of the Sundance Composers lab and one of Ludwig Van’s “Six Emerging Canadian Composers To Keep an Eye On,” Kalaichelvan has begun to carve his name into Canada’s rich musical history. Often combining disparate musical elements together to discover new, rich soundscapes, the young Tamil-Canadian composer was the perfect choice to musically capture Toronto’s diverse communities.
“I think Toronto has always been this amazing cocktail [of a city] where a lot of different sounds and voices belong but they sit really well together. From one neighborhood to the next, you’re seeing communities that are very mixed, very diverse, and that spirit of communion was the spirit we were channeling in the music.”
Kalaichelvan’s unconventional soundscape is something you instantly notice while watching the film, from atmospheric oboe and violin solos to killer pop songs sourced from Canadian artists. By combining elements of both the past and the present, Kalaichelvan absorbs the viewer into the film’s unique intimacy with its own characters. It acknowledges histories of displacement while transcending them, offering a hopeful vision for a new generation that seeks to make their own way.
“We knew from the onset that we didn’t want to limit the scope of how to view this story as just a cultural story. It’s about getting to a point where we see people of color and people of different communities in a different lens that’s not just based on the identity of their homeland. As a composer, [my job is] not so much cultural representation as it is offering an emotional lens to see what their world is like, to make time stand still in the music and to create a world that’s unique to this film and to these characters.”
Following the festival, we sat down with Kalaichelvan to talk about working with director V. T. Nayani, cracking films open through music, and why they intentionally stayed away from incorporating Tamil or Mohawk instruments into the score.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
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Larry Fried: Kalaisan, thank you so much for speaking with us. I was able to see This Place while I was at TIFF and the score was something that I noticed very quickly. It really is just beautiful work. Thank you for your work on the film and congratulations on all of the film’s success so far.
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: Thank you so much. That’s very kind of you, Larry.
Larry Fried: We got a chance to speak to V. T [Nayani, the film’s director]. during the festival and she briefly spoke about working with you. She only had glowing things to say, in fact she said that collaborating with you was like having a “Barry Jenkins/Nicholas Britell moment.”
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: [laughs]
Larry Fried: She’s referenced Moonlight as a particular influence on this film and I think it’s very clear, but I’m curious to hear from your perspective. Did Nicholas Britell and his musical stylings play a role in your inspiration for this film and, if so, what is it about his work that you were trying to channel?
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: Funny enough, I think his name has popped up a lot over people talking about the score, so that’s really interesting to me. I think Nayani and I drew from what the music does underneath Barry Jenkins’ films to elevate them to a certain state, especially If Beale Street Could Talk. The music is interested in creating this sort of dreamlike state. There’s something about seeing the camera linger on those beautiful faces in that classic Barry Jenkins way and then hearing these textures underneath in Britell’s music. He uses standard things like a string quartet, brass, semi-jazz colors but not in a very jazzy way. When you’re working in between genres, working in between ways we think about sound, suddenly you have this whole new space and sound world that brings something else to the film. I think the ethos of that, which Britell does so well, is something we channeled into the score. There’s so much subtext underneath all of the characters and complex things going on in the film and that’s where the music needed to breathe and live and thrive.
Larry Fried: As a composer, one of your trademarks is that you combine, as you call it, “incongruous elements” to build new, beautiful things. This is a deeply intersectional film. You have so many different communities and groups that are being represented––Iranians, Tamil, Mohawk, queer––all of these things are flowing in and out of each other throughout the film. Where did that play a role in the score for this film and are there any particular instruments or styles within the orchestration that reflect this intersectionality?
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: When trying to find the sound for the film, it was initially like asking, “what is the sound for Toronto?” That’s already such a big and vague and challenging ask for anyone, let alone a composer. It’s kind of what you’re talking about. It’s the in-between, the intersectional spaces. What I like to do in films like this is bring things into the space that you don’t think of. How does that crack the film open? Once we had the love and character themes down and all the melodies, it was about color. What are the colors that can really bring things to the surface in a certain way?
I initially pitched to Nayani, “what if we added lyrical oboe solos in there?” It’s a strange ask––you don’t hear it so much in films anymore. What if you just brought this strange, soloistic instrument that belongs in a concert hall into the film and we’ll think about how to use it? I wanna see what we can do with maybe a brass quintet, chance music, jazz solos. I also wanted to treat the piano differently and think about it as a rhythmic texture. We brought in a harp to do some playing in the score too. A lot of it was finding things that you don’t think belong, but when you bring them in there, they crack the film open in an interesting way. I think what we ended up with was a pretty rich and complex mosaic, which happens to reflect the very complex mosaic of the film.
Larry Fried: Were there any musical elements from either Tamil or Mohawk cultures that made their way into the film?
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: Something we were keen about from the beginning was actually to move away from the cultural sounds of these communities. I think one of the big things for me, which I’ve learned from [working with] the greatest composers, is that there’s so much happening in the film where these characters are speaking about the families and the heritage and the communities they come from. What is the music adding to that conversation? As a composer, I think my job is to offer a lens to view this complexity that you’re seeing culturally. We decided early on that bringing in Tamil instruments or bringing in Indigenous music wasn’t the answer to that.
We’re talking about two women who were born and raised in Canada who see Toronto through a very specific, mixed lens, and to suddenly put in culturally associated instruments now puts all that in a very specific box. We knew from the onset that we didn’t wanna limit the scope of how to view this story as just a cultural story. Culture is a huge part of this film and this story, but it’s a very human story. They’re people that transcend the background they come from and we didn’t want to approach it in a tokenistic way like, “let’s bring in an Indian or a Sri Lankan harp in there just because she’s a Sri Lankan-Tamil woman,” right? What is the music’s job? It’s not so much cultural representation as it is offering an emotional lens to see what their world is like, to make time stand still in the music and to create a world that’s unique to this film and to these characters.
Larry Fried: That’s really interesting. I think people would’ve initially thought that that would be the starting point, but it makes sense because these two women have been so displaced from those communities. It wouldn’t really make sense for all of the music to be enriched with those sounds.
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: Totally, and it says something that when people see a film about BIPOC characters, suddenly they’re expecting music from that world. Let’s be honest, people from BIPOC communities, myself included, listen to a lot of different kinds of things. Just as someone white who was born and raised in Canada isn’t listening to Mozart necessarily––some people do, he’s great [laughs]––we’re also not listening to South Asian classical music or Indigenous music. It’s all part of the fabric, but it’s about getting to a point where we see people of color and people of different communities in a different lens that’s not just based on the identity of their homeland. It’s about being really intentional about that. What is the film really about? It’s about two folks in Toronto, dealing with trying to figure out who they are, right? So, if that’s their objective, then let’s work on that, whereas, if this was a historical picture that was set in a certain context, then the music’s demands are different. It’s interesting that that expectation is still there.
Larry Fried: Really fascinating and an educational moment for myself, as well. I want to go back to the idea you were talking about earlier about trying to musically capture Toronto. You are from Toronto, so you have your own rich history with the city. For those who may not be really familiar with the city or these communities, what are some of the cornerstone musical elements that you feel like define that world?
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: It’s a great question. I think Toronto is such an interesting place. It has always been this amazing cocktail [of a city] where a lot of different sounds belong and a lot of different voices belong but they sit really well together. I think that’s what sets Toronto apart from other cities. From one neighborhood to the next, you’re seeing communities that are very mixed, very diverse, and that spirit of communion is what we were trying to find. Initially, we thought to go in a more pop music-driven route with the music. We sourced out a lot of local artists that were Toronto-based to try and build the soundtrack of the film. Then, Nayani and I started to move away from that. Let’s actually get into the spirit of what it’s like to be a young, wide-eyed person in Toronto, especially [in regards to] Kawenniióhstha’s character who’s coming from her community to Toronto for the first time. She’s seeing a community that’s filled with all sorts of different kinds of people and different kinds of views. Just that shot of her when she walks by and sees that mural for the first time says so much about how this can belong in this big city.
Larry Fried: Loved that shot.
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: What does that feel like? That’s where we were like, “let’s just really imbue this score with a lot of rich different kinds of color.” I started reaching out to a lot of my music friends; Alexandra Petkovksi sang the vocal parts; Olivia Khomacheet, who is a really good friend of mine in the states member of the Comanche nation, did the fiddling work and the guitar solos; Chanell Crichow scoped out the brass quintet. It was a lot of these different friends from all across different corners of the music spectrum brought together in one piece. I think that’s what Toronto is. Toronto is this really great cultural melting pot that’s found a way to include everyone, but in communion. That was the spirit we were channeling in the music. We were trying to find that mosaic quality to it. You know, there are still songs that are in there––the ending song as they walk off into the Queen St. backlot [“Sounds That Mark Our Words” by Casey Mecjia] is amazing. She’s a local artist and it’s just a fantastic song.
Larry Fried: I love that moment as well. Another moment I love, musically, is the love theme and the love scene in the bedroom, which is such a tender, beautiful scene. What was the thought process behind capturing the same tenderness from the cinematography in the music as well?
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: That was a tough one because it’s such a strong scene. You’re seeing how committed [co-stars] Devery Jacobs and Priya Guns are in that moment. [There’s a] dance that’s happening from the moment Devery’s character walks into the room and they start to slowly circle around each other. The moment they finally decide to go for it, after they’ve locked eyes and have that first kiss, is like butterflies in your stomach. We see that in Kawenniióhstha’s character. She’s like, “I don’t know, I’m feeling all these things but what do I do about it?”
Initially, we were like looking at putting a pop song over it but I was fighting it because it didn’t feel right. There’s something about when you’re in that moment where time stands still and you’re breathless and every minutia matters. Every touch, every brush of a stroke is something that means a thousand things. It was about finding that hushed simplicity and really bringing the audience into that state, because I think we’ve all been there when we think about first love and who makes the first reach. [I composed] this beautiful [musical] idea that expands on the love theme and how it escalates. Drew Jurecka, a good friend of mine, played the violin solo for that.
Larry Fried: From hearing you talk about the process, it sounds like you involved a lot of your collaborators. This is a film about community and intersection, so what did it feel like to bring all of these people together for a project that is so imbued with that same spirit?
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: It honestly felt like going home, kind of. These were all people who I’ve been interacting with in different parts of my life. It felt really right to build a home for all of them, because they all mean so many different things for me in different parts of my life and career. The recording sessions happened in the middle of the Omicron wave, so it was when things were shut down. Initially, when Nayani and I were speaking, we were like, “okay, we’ll book a studio, we’ll do a session, we’ll just bring in like five musicians.” There wasn’t much money, but we would just do one ensemble and do this big session. But, when the recording was supposed to happen in December/January ‘21/’22, things had shut down again. We reevaluated and suddenly the scope broadened. I got to now reach out to all my friends and then just suddenly say “hey, there might be a thing where all of you can do a little bit and play on the score.” It felt so organic.
Everyone was such a trooper knowing that this was a low budget indie film. People were like, “okay, we want to be a part of this, we really believe in this story.” I know Nayani had that with her cast and had that during production and I’m just really humbled that I got to share that experience of my own in just the music. There was a real sense of community that we built there and it was deeply intersectional; [the musicians were] a mix of classically trained musicians to indie folk experimentalists. These were all musicians who did such radically different things and, somehow, we found a way to include all of it in this score. That, again, is what Toronto feels like and, I guess in my head, sounds like too.
Larry Fried: Lastly, I want to speak a little bit about working with V. T. Nayani. This is her feature film debut and something that I noticed while watching it is that it truly does feel like a confident new voice emerging onto the scene. What was it like to work with her and what is the promise that you think she holds as a potential new voice in not just in Canadian cinema, but in independent film period?
Kalaisan Kalaichelvan: I think the first thing that really struck me about Nayani is that she’s a humanist. She is someone who deeply, deeply values and has deep empathy for the people she works with and that is rare. Just thinking about working in film, which is where art and commerce meet, you have a film with a lot of money put into it and things need to get done. But in all of that, Nayani is someone who deeply values her collaborators as being human. When we first met at the Canadian Film Centre, we just clicked. We both grew up in Scarborough in Tamil families and we were geeking about what it was like. That’s how it started and, ever since then, seeing her be as successful as she is is no surprise to me. That magic seeps into her film and offers a kind of lens that is rare. It’s rare and it shows when it’s on screen.
I think we need more humanists in cinema, especially to tell these stories and to tell these stories in not an exploitative way, which I think can happen sometimes in the independent scene. People want to tap into communities they don’t know about, but Nayani also offers a lot of space to her collaborators to be involved and give them a voice. You see that when she thinks about how the film was written and how Goshan [Abdmoulaie, co-writer] and Devery [also a co-writer[ were part of this process because they could speak to that voice. Nayani does such a great job of making sure everyone is credited and honestly shown as her collaborators. There isn’t much ego in that woman and that’s kind of crazy. I think that’s why the people who work with her swear by her. It’s deep. It’s very rare to find that kind of loyalty. And I think that’s going to take her very far and I’m very excited to see where her career goes.
“This Place” had its World Premiere as part of the Discovery section at this year’s Toronto International Film Festival. It is currently seeking distribution.
Larry Fried is a filmmaker, writer, and podcaster based in New Jersey. He is the host and creator of the podcast “My Favorite Movie is…,” a podcast dedicated to helping filmmakers make somebody’s next favorite movie. He is also the Visual Content Manager for Special Olympics New Jersey, an organization dedicated to competition and training opportunities for athletes with intellectual disabilities across the Garden State.