Back in 2019, frequent collaborators Lisa Steen and Anna Greenfield came to SXSW for the first time with their short film, Stepdaddy. This year, the director and writer, respectively, are back with their feature debut, Late Bloomers, and they brought another friend along: superstar Karen Gillan.
“Do you want to talk about Guardians or…” Greenfield jokes.
Steen cheekily replies, “We’re part of this too!”
The trio’s press tour was often overtaken by questions about the upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, but Marvel fans who watch this movie will see a new side to Nebula.
“She’s used to holding back a lot of her impulses in terms of being strange,” Steen explained, referring to Gillan. “For every shot, we would do a fun take in which she could just let loose. Honestly, a lot of those ended up making it into the movie because she was so ready to let loose. I think that was the coolest thing, getting to see her weird side.”
Gillan portrays Louise, an aimless twenty-something who drunkenly breaks her hip. In the hospital, she meets Antonina, played by accomplished Polish actress Margaret Sophie Stein, an elderly curmudgeon who doesn’t speak English. The two form an unlikely friendship that forces Louise to confront her fractured relationship with her own mother, played by Talia Balsam, who has reached later stages of Alzheimer’s Disease.
Greenfield based the script on her own experiences with her mother, to whom the film is dedicated. “I was in my late 20s when my mom was getting sick. In your mind, you think that that’s not going to happen until you’re a lot older and have the resources to take care of that person. What I found was the opposite. It was such a chaotic, stressful time that I became even more self-obsessed because I didn’t want to face it.”
Louise, similarly, isn’t ready to confront hard truths. However, through taking care of Antonina, Louise learns what it means to not only communicate with other people, but to take responsibility for her other relationships.
“I think it can be a very complicated journey towards taking care of someone,” Greenfield continues. “Sometimes, especially if you’re a young person, you aren’t the most equipped person to be taking care of a parent or grandparent. You need help.”
Steen believes that much of the “complicated journey” can be made less grueling through humor, which is reflected in Late Bloomers’ dry comedic sensibility. “If you step back and look at it, there are funny things about it. I’ve had family members with dementia too and I just think about if my dad or my aunts were able to laugh at some of these situations, it probably would’ve made it easier.”
Back in LA after their South By experience, Steen and Greenfield spoke to GVN about Late Bloomers, our favorite Pixar movies, and why music is an essential form of communication. Here is our lovely conversation, edited for length and clarity.
You both premiered Stepdaddy at SXSW in 2019 and then returned in 2023 with your feature debut. What was it like to return to South By and transition from the short film experience to the feature film experience?
Lisa Steen: SXSW was the most fun I think I’ve ever had at a festival. It was just such good vibes and everybody was happy to be there and didn’t feel stressed out. When we knew that we could premiere Late Bloomers there, we were like, “Absolutely.” This is exactly the environment you want to premiere your feature film in. In terms of going from a short to a feature, it’s weirdly not that different of an experience just because they treat the shorts so well. We were there for longer this time around and did press, as we’re doing now, which we didn’t do the first time around and that’s been really fun. I got to do it with Anna and some interviews with Karen too. It was just so nice to have a team to do it with. I didn’t know it was going to be this fun.
Anna Greenfield: I always am like, “Damn, Lisa speaks so well.” I’ve known her since college. It’s like watching someone…she’s not my daughter obviously, that would be a weird coincidence, but I just feel so much pride when she speaks. I’m like, “Look at her go!” [all laugh] SXSW was really fun and it’s so cool that we got to be at the Alamo. I always like when you can give audiences something to eat and drink right before they see anything because it just puts people in a much better mood. I can’t believe how many things I’ve hated just because I was hungry.
Very valid point. You both have worked together on a number of short films. Where did this collaborative relationship begin and how do you think it has evolved?
Steen: We went to NYU together. We met because our boyfriends were roommates, but now we’re doing our own thing.
Steen: Which is much better.
Classic.
Greenfield: She married her boyfriend. I did not. [all laugh]
Steen: When I was in college, Anna was a grade above me and doing playwriting. I watched some of her plays in college and I was always so in awe of her. I knew I wanted to work with her whenever that was possible. Even after college, we would send each other scripts. I read Late Bloomers when she first wrote it, which was actually before we did any shorts together. I was like, “She needs to make this movie.” Thankfully, she asked me to direct one of the shorts that she wrote, and then from there we just kept working together because it was so much fun. We were just basically like, “How do we keep this going as long as possible?” I love directing, but I especially love directing Anna’s writing because I feel like she notices things about the world that I want to put out there. Her words are the most fun to put images to, for me at least.
Greenfield: I was very spoiled because I was on set every day for Late Bloomers. It takes a very egoless director to have a writer hovering. Usually the writer’s the first person to go, just X-ed out of the community after the script is in production. Lisa is a natural leader and she would listen if I had anything to say, but what she was doing was perfect, so I’m thankful for her that she had me be part of it.
I’d be remiss to do any interview about this movie without talking about Karen at least a little bit…
Greenfield: Yeah, do you want to talk about Guardians or…? [all laugh]
Nothing like that.
Greenfield: I’m down, I’m down.
I did see that Deadline interview where she was talking about Guardians…
Steen: [She got] her fair share of Marvel questions.
Really looking for the scoop here, guys.
Greenfield: No, I loved sitting there being like, “Great point!”
Steen: Yeah, we’re part of this too!
Look, we’re all going to see it when it comes out, so it’s fine.
Greenfield: Yeah, yeah.
I know you guys were not expecting her to be involved and then she got involved through her husband, Nick Kocher, who also is featured in the film. Shoutout BriTANick!
Greenfield: Yeah!
Was there a moment or aspect of what Karen brought to this film that you thought was particularly special?
Steen: She was just so excited to get down to the nitty gritty and all the strangeness of this character. She’s used to holding back a lot of her impulses in terms of being strange, so she brought all kinds of unique stuff to [Louise]. For every shot, we would do a fun take in which she could just let loose. Honestly, a lot of those ended up making it into the movie because she was so ready to let loose. I think that was the coolest thing, getting to see her weird side.
Greenfield: I mean, obviously, to cast one of the most gorgeous people I’ve ever met as someone to play me – I’m already feeling good about that. [all laugh] But no, I agree totally with Lisa. She’s the star of the movie, she’s in almost every scene, and she brought the most energy, the most light and love and funniness. I was at video village a lot and, between takes, I’d watch her joking around with [co-star] Jermaine [Fowler] and I’d be like, “Oh, that’s so funny.” To bring that energy at the start of it, I couldn’t ask for anything more. She loves acting and she’s so good at it. It’s what she’s meant to do.
Steen: Yeah, she brought so much good energy to set which was great.
We need good energy on an indie set always.
Steen: Yeah, definitely.
As somebody who has a musical background, I’m always very acutely aware of when a film incorporates music. All of these characters are connected to each other musically – Louise is a musician, Antonina has a love of dancing, even Jermaine’s character’s father is a one-hit wonder. I’d love to hear about the intentionality behind incorporating music into the film in this way.
Greenfield: That’s really exciting that you picked up on that and noticed that. You should feel really good.
I’ll take it.
Greenfield: It’s not a Guardians question, but… [all laugh] No. So, I come from a pretty “connected by music” family. My brother’s a musician, my mom was a radio DJ – she was the first DJ to play the Dire Straits in America, so she had a gold record – and my dad was a writer for The Rolling Stone in London in the 70s. Music was a huge part of how my family connected and it was a really big part of how my mom kept speaking to us even after she lost her voice. For example, Sandy Denny and Fairport Convention are a huge part of the movie. Sandy Denny is a songwriter that my mom played a lot when I was growing up and I [used to be] like, “Oh. Cringe. This is really embarrassing folk music.” Then, when I was an adult and going home to see her, I played one of her mix CDs in the car and [Sandy Denny] would come on and I’d be like, “This is so beautiful.” The power that music has of growing you, it’s the most powerful tool of communication. I think anybody connected with music would agree with that.
Steen: Music is a nonverbal form of communication and a lot of these characters are having to find ways to communicate nonverbally. What Louise realizes is that she’s a musician, she’s had this tool all along this whole time to communicate and she has been hiding it away. She connects with Antonina through that and then realizes that she can connect with her mom that way.
I have to imagine that the dedication to “DJ Donna” at the end is part of this.
Greenfield: That was my mom’s radio name, DJ Donna. Lisa chose to put it in there, which was a surprise to me and really, really sweet.
Steen: All along this was a movie, in a lot of ways, for your mom.
Greenfield: Yeah. It was giving her back a voice, or using my voice to make her proud or whatever that is. Yeah, or whatever.
Or whatever. [all laugh] Imagine me suddenly being like, “So, what’s your favorite infinity stone?” [all laugh] Continuing with music, I’d love to talk about the score. I’m a sucker for films that take place in the modern day but don’t necessarily sound like it. There’s a great woodwind sound to the score that really elevates the story. Talk to me about collaborating with composer Osei Essed on what the sound of this movie was going to be.
Steen: Osei Essed is incredible and a thoughtful composer. He really wanted to talk about what the sound would be. One thing we noticed when we were putting in temp tracks was that woodwinds were really effective partially because they sound a little bit like car horns. They sound like street traffic in New York City and blend into the environment. So, yeah, we went heavy with the woodwinds. Also, a thing that speaks to the musical element is that because Sandy Denny is such a folk guitar-heavy sound, we wanted to save that for the Sandy Denny moments. Louise isn’t playing her guitar the entire movie, so we talked about not having any guitar for all of the score so that the Sandy Denny moments would feel more impactful.
Greenfield: Osei is also a saint because we would hear his tracks and call every instrument an oboe. [all laugh]
Steen: We knew nothing about music. We were like, “Less of the oboe.”
Greenfield: Yeah, yeah. I was imagining him getting those emails being like, “Uh, okay.”
That is so funny because the first thing that I thought of when I heard the score of this movie was like, “Is that an oboe?” [all laugh] I guess it was like 18 oboes.
Greenfield: Yeah, pure oboe.
Steen: Only oboe soundtrack.
There’s a moment in this movie where Louise very randomly says, “You want to see the newest Pixar?” which was maybe my favorite line. What are your favorite Pixar films and what Pixar film do you imagine they were watching in that scene?
Greenfield: Oh my god, that’s amazing.
Steen: That’s a good question.
Greenfield: Now we’re both excited.
Steen: You go. Anna wrote the Pixar line. You should talk about it.
Greenfield: No, but we both love those movies. I definitely have a special place in my heart for Ratatouille because I saw it at a specific time of life. In Amsterdam, too, in a weird way, so I will always love Ratatouille, and Up of course. That first sequence. Anything that’s going to make me cry, really. But also, Inside Out is a major influence. And the writer [Meg LaFauve]…
Steen: She was a mentor for our producers, which was amazing.
Greenfield: She’s just a cool, cool person. So much respect for that world. Lisa, do you have favorites? I haven’t seen Turning Red yet. I can’t wait to see it.
Steen: Oh yeah, I haven’t. I love Inside Out. We’re both kind of psychology brains and like “let’s talk about feelings.” Maybe they went to see…I don’t know. When does this film take place? We kind of are unclear about that.
It’s a little up in the air, so it could be anything.
Greenfield: I mean, the most poignant one for them to see together would be Up, I think.
Steen: That’s true. Or Wall-E because there’s no talking.
I was about to say, “Why not just make it Wall-E?” Wall-E’s lowkey a perfect movie.
Steen: Yeah.
Greenfield: I totally agree.
I don’t care what people say.
Greenfield: What do people say?
People are like, “Oh, when the humans show up, it gets bad.” And I’m like, “That’s completely incorrect.”
Greenfield: Oh. No.
It’s actually the exact opposite of that.
Greenfield: Totally. I totally agree.
Steen: That’s a perfect movie.
This is kind of my last question, but it’s a bit of a doozy. As somebody who has had a number of relatives from Antonina’s generation who have dealt with Alzheimer’s and dementia, this movie felt like a very accurate portrayal of my generation reckoning with the idea that, someday, we will need to take care of these people. For my parents’ generation, that is something that was always imparted onto them. Due to the way that our culture has evolved, we have all become self-absorbed to the point that our generation doesn’t even know how to approach it. Anna, I know that this script is based on your own personal experiences. Why did you feel like it was important to be showing this story from the perspective of a younger generation?
Greenfield: That’s a great question. I was in my late 20s when my mom was getting sick. I think the main thing I wanted to say with the script was that, in your mind, you think that that’s not going to happen until you’re a lot older and more established in life and have the resources to take care of that person. What I found was the opposite. She got sick and I felt sick too. I felt the least good I’d felt in my life. I felt more absorbed in my phone than ever. It was such a chaotic, stressful time that I became even more self-obsessed because I didn’t want to face it. I wanted to put that attitude and experience out there because I’m imagining that I wasn’t singular in that.
I wanted to show a different side of caretaking. I wanted to put a more complicated story out there than just someone getting ill and the person really rising to the occasion. I don’t feel like I rose to the occasion, I feel like I sunk further and then got back up. I don’t think someone having a disease in their family automatically makes them a saint. I think it can be a very complicated journey towards taking care of someone. I think we live in a different world now where we used to live really close to our families and now a lot of people have moved far away from their families. Sometimes, especially if you’re a young person, you aren’t the most equipped person to be taking care of a parent or grandparent. You need help.
Steen: I think what I found so impactful watching Anna go through this experience was that she was able to find the humor in some of it. Even when these really difficult moments are happening, if you step back and look at it, there are funny things about it. That helps you get through. I’ve had family members with dementia too and I just think about if my dad or my aunts were able to laugh at some of these situations, it probably would’ve made it easier.
Alzheimer’s, the great connector.
Greenfield: Yeah.
Thank you both so much for your work on this film. It really touched me in a very significant way. I wish you guys the best of luck when we see what comes from this film because I’m hoping that this is far from the end of the journey.
Greenfield: Thanks for such thoughtfulness and watching it with such detail and attention and being really kind in your questions. We really appreciate it.
Steen: Yeah. This was a great conversation.
Late Bloomers had its World Premiere in the Narrative Feature Competition section of SXSW 2023. It is currently seeking distribution.
Larry Fried is a filmmaker, writer, and podcaster based in New Jersey. He is the host and creator of the podcast “My Favorite Movie is…,” a podcast dedicated to helping filmmakers make somebody’s next favorite movie. He is also the Visual Content Manager for Special Olympics New Jersey, an organization dedicated to competition and training opportunities for athletes with intellectual disabilities across the Garden State.