“It Gave Us the Space and Scale to Feel Like the Sistine Chapel” – Producer Michael Jackman On The Political Thriller ‘Conclave’

Right off the back of his Oscar-winning All Quiet on the Western Front, writer/director Edward Berger is now making his English-language debut with Conclave. The movie, based on Robert Harris’ same-named novel, tells the story of the conclave voting for a new Pope after the former one has died. Cardinals from all over the world come together in Rome and fight for each vote. Some means aren’t very Christian, as there is much more backstabbing, gossip and sinister actions behind the scenes than you would think.

Throughout the two-hour runtime, Conclave turns into a beautifully balanced, impeccably directed and stunningly performed movie with the most tension-packed score you’ll hear in a while. Geek Vibes Nation sat down with producer Michael Jackman (The Good Nurse, Arrival) to talk about this compelling political thriller, the score and his role as a producer.

Geek Vibes Nation (Liselotte Vanophem): Hello, Michael, congratulations on the film. The script of Conclave is based on the book by Robert Harris. What did you think when reading the book and the script?

Producer Michael Jackman: Oh, I mean, the book is a beautiful foundation. It’s a great thriller and a real page-turner. Harris is an excellent writer. Peter Strachan’s (writer; Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, Frank) adaptation was nuanced and exciting. It’s one of those things where you read a book, and you often feel like, “Oh, I can see that as a movie”. However, it’s not simple to take that then and turn it into something that will compel you. You can read many things in a book that can be procedural, and you get inside someone’s mind in a book. And in a movie, you have to see it on their faces. You’re not hearing their thoughts.

I think Peter’s adaptation was terrific, and his ability to juxtapose people’s situations, good people and bad people, and conservatives and liberals, and I thought it was a beautiful balance.

GVN: How did the collaboration between you, Peter and Edward go? Was your role more financially, creatively or a bit of both?

MJ: Sure, so there are lots of different kinds of producers. Producing partners Tessa Ross (Billy Elliot, Carol) and Juliette Howell (The Wonder, Iron Claw) optioned the material originally from Harris. I got involved about two and a half years ago, almost three years ago.

It’s the balance between creativity and how we make this movie.So you have a certain amount of days, you have a certain amount of money, and you have a vision of what you want to do with the screenplay. Edward had a fantastic vision of how he wanted to make this film and what he needed to make it. My job on the project was to liaise between that creative vision and the time and money we had to achieve it, so that involved a lot of back-and-forth.

What is needed? What are the most essential things? Where do we want to put the money we have versus things that may be less important and that we don’t need to do? Things we had to do. We had to build the Sistine Chapel. That’s was must. We required the costumes, beautiful, and the set design. You will never notice the things we didn’t do or need because you make those decisions early on. It’s like pre-editing everything before you start. So, I did a lot of that work to make that balance so that what you see on the screen is every dollar we spent properly to help Edward’s vision.

The other thing would be sitting on set behind the camera with the director, looking at everything we do and giving feedback. How did that work? How did that look? Did we get the take? I was there behind the camera every day. Our writer, Peter, was with us a lot of the time, which was amazing. He’s so collaborative. Of course, Tessa was there to give feedback. Most of the time, Edward didn’t need it. He knew when he got it. He knew when he got what he wanted.

GVN: What do you look for as a producer when taking on a project?

MJ: There are a lot of things. Mostly, I look for people. It’s projects I like with people I love. I have to pick the scripts. I have to find them interesting. In a script, I like movies for grown-ups. I want to be entertained, but I like something well thought through, both in the script and the execution, and I take advantage of opportunities. I respond to scripts that have an emotional core.

GVN: How was working with some many different languages? Did you work together with language experts or were there any cast or crew members who already spoke the language and helped out?

MJ: We had a language expert and religious experts to advise on all of it and make sure the Latin was correct. Literally, every word, every take, our language coach would be there advising us. One of the things that was very important for us was accuracy. Accuracy in the religious traditions, the clothing, how people wear the clothing, how people wear the jewellery and the crosses, what they would do with them. Would a cardinal or an archbishop, when they’re stressed, play with the cross? How do they act? Ultimately, they’re humans, so they act like humans. So, language and everything we did was to ensure that we honour and respect the actual process and traditions of the Church.

GVN: You already talked about the Sistine Chapel that you guys built from scratch. How was it to see that coming to life because it looks just like the real one?

MJ: That was amazing. It was so much fun. It’s full-size. It’s not full-height, so we built up to about 15 meters on the sides and 20 meters on the front and back. That gave us the room and the size, so when you’re in there, you feel like you’re the in the real Sistine Chapel. The ceiling was computer-generated, so we had the frescoes front and back there and the ceiling and the windows up above were computer-generated. We actually got to re-use a set that had been used for another film and had been in storage for a bunch of years, so we had a head start.

GVN: There’s a moment in the film where Ralph’s character Lawrence is about to, what looks like, casting his final vote. At the exact moment, there’s an explosion coming from the outside, destroying the 16th chapel. How did you film that particular scene?

MJ: We did it on set. We blew debris out of a cannon, so you had all the dust and the particles, obviously very lightweight, coming from the roof. Then that looked great, and then in post-production with visual effects, we added some elements to make it look more specific such as the window frame that got blown out.

GVN: How was it to work with Volker Bertelmann on the score?

MJ: His score in All Quiet on Western Front blew me away. For Conclave, he would develop a theme for a moment, and we’d start to hear that as we edited the movie and saw different cuts. And then he’d keep evolving the themes and come back and redo different moments of it. There’s a rhythm to it.

Much of the musicality part of what Volker is brilliant at is those rhythms, moments, and the sort of not-obvious orchestral score. This could be a vast orchestral piece, but he elevates and supports every scene because of what he did. I love seeing it on the big screen, and I think his score is wonderful. It reminds me of two other films that I’ve worked on, and I feel like the score had an impact similar to this.

There was Arrival, a score by Johan Johansson, which was also beautiful and rhythmically supportive. And then there was Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which was scored by Jon Brion, which again had this sense of sort of rhythmic, playful moments that let you know what you were allowed to do, kind of let you know you can enjoy this moment, you can laugh at this moment, you can, you know, without feeling manipulated. It supports and enhances and does a really good job.

Well, that was my last question. Thank you for the interview!

MJ: Thank you as well.

Conclave is out in UK cinemas on the 29th of November and is out now on VOD in the US